![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
faded_laceSo. I hear this a lot on the internet. "Those yaoi fangirls and their disgusting misogyny." And maybe I'm missing something, but what?
I've seen this claim made in a variety of situations, but the two most prominent are the following:
1) There's a female original character in a movie or original arc of a TV show based on a book or an anime based on a manga. In said original arc, which was not written or conceived of by the author of the book or manga, the female character is hinted to be the love interest of a male character or openly admits feelings for said male character. When the arc or movie ends, the female character disappears-- since she is not a part of the original book or manga series, she has no part in the rest of the show.
In response to this female character, fans and fanfiction authors react. They dislike this female character because she has come between her male love interest (for the ease of reference, Male 1) and another male friend of his (Male 2). The more immature among them bash her ruthlessly-- something I don't condone, of course, because it's unnecessary and rude. There is a difference between meta/commentary and bashing, naturally, but even the bashing, rude and immature as it may be, is not, so far as I can tell, misogynist. The nature of these situations, at least within my familiarity, is that frankly, Male 1 has a meaningful, long-standing relationship with Male 2, be it a friendship, rivalry, or even hatred. Male 1 and Male 2 have been in the series together for as long as it's existed, and probably longer in the book or manga since these original arcs and movies tend to be dropped down inconveniently in the middle of a story line. What sense does it make, then, for the random female to appear on the scene and, within a relatively short duration, fall hopelessly in love with Male 1? Maybe the pairing does have some merit, maybe the female is more than a canon-sue (which these characters, especially in anime, tend to be), but the fact of the matter stands that she did not exist in the original media and therefore probably does not have as well-developed a relationship with Male 1 as Male 2 does. If the female were, instead, a Male 3, I feel that the same reaction would be merited. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the value of the relationship and the pairing.
Of course, as I mentioned above, bashing the character is rude, and everyone is entitled to her own opinion. If someone likes the female character and wants to write her with Male 1, naturally, it's rude and uncalled for to bash the person's work based on that (or really, at all; is public bashing ever acceptable?) Like as not, it's completely possible to develop the relationship between Male 1 and the female character into something really interesting, and if that is someone's chosen pursuit, I wouldn't judge her for it. But in the long run, is disliking a female character created (sometimes purposefully out of homophobia) to break up a slash ship misogynistic? Often, especially in Japanese works, the female character is an object of sexism in and of herself (as are many Japanese female characters, something which, I think, drives many feminist Japanophiles to slash in the first place) and her creation as a road block between Male 1 and Male 2 is an act of homophobia. In the long run, then, am I a misogynist to see something wrong with this scenario?
Naturally, immature people who lack social awareness will say offensive things, and I'm not arguing that no fan has ever made an offensive, sexist comment along this strain. But the generalization that all fans who dislike the female because she comes between Male 1 and Male 2 is, in my honest and personal opinion, completely incorrect. And honestly, in a situation with the new female, Male 1, and Female 2, fans react with the same uproar.
2) A male character who has been either hinted to be (chain-womanizer, in a heterosexual relationship throughout the series or work, pines for various female characters at various times in canon) or is said openly to be heterosexual is written or depicted in a homosexual relationship in some form of fanwork.
And then everyone is up in arms! This is wrong and disrespectful! Clearly, this male (now Male A, to differentiate from Male 1 above) is only interested in women, and writing him in relationships with men is entirely misogynistic. Just because the author or artist wants slash and finds it "hot," she's sacrificing both the integrity of the character and the honor of women everywhere, because women are just no good to this author. The only people for men are other man, and women are to be tossed to the wayside. Clear sexism.
To which I have a variety of responses, and this first is: sometimes, yes. I agree that there are cases where this seems relatively pointless, but usually they are in fiction or fanworks made up of bad grammar, internet slang, and/or purple prose. By which I mean to say, there are immature writers who will do immature things. I know that when I was 14, I wrote and said things of which I'm not proud.
But to the rest of these works at large, I hardly feel like this is a wound to women everywhere. And my first question is is the only point of female characters to be in relationships? Why is it the end of the world that Female A has been ousted from her relationship with Male A, be it canon, hinted, or simply popular in fandom? Relationships begin and end with great regularity in the real world, and it is my hope that the main goal of those pointing fingers and slinging accusations of misogyny isn't to convince the modern woman that her purpose is to always be in a relationship. Luckily, we no longer live in the 1950s and no longer go to women's colleges to meet a nice boy at the brother school, settle down, and start popping out babies. So if someone writes a fanwork in which Male A is no longer interested in Female A and ends up in a relationship with Male B, is it the end of the world for Female A? Can't Female A go on with her life, and most likely find another meaningful relationship?
But Male A is clearly heterosexual, you say, and you have a point. Male A is said to be heterosexual in canon. But today's society, in great majority, says that everyone is heterosexual, unless they've veered from the "normal" track at some point, and who is to say that Male A hasn't been told that he's straight all his life, and has not ever thought differently? Maybe Male A is a chain womanizer-- clearly, he's into women. But does that mean that he can't be bisexual? Perhaps he's womanizing to convince himself that he's straight rather than face that he's attracted to men. Sexuality in the world of fiction, as far as I'm concerned, is fluid. Just because Male A is in a relationship with Female A in canon does not mean that he could never be interested in Male B. Because it's fiction. These people are not real, and therefore cannot tell us how they feel. If an author wishes to explore a scenario where Male A is in a relationship with Male B, is it misogyny, or is it artistic license? Assuming that Male A doesn't chose to break it off with Female A by insulting all women and saying that only men are worthy of his affections or something of the like, I hardly think that exploring one possible track of action in a character's life has an underlying sexist agenda.
But if the same thing were done with a homosexual character being paired with a female, there would be an uproar of these misogynist fans, wouldn't there? Why is it okay for a heterosexual male character to be portrayed as interested in men when it's not okay for a homosexual male character to be portrayed as interested in women? In my opinion, this is a sticking point, but it comes down to this: unfortunately, our society isn't fair. Heterosexuality is the "norm." Many characters are portrayed as heterosexual in the media because they are expected to be, and whereas the default for most characters is heterosexual, it is a distinct choice on the part of the creator of the canon series to make a character homosexual. So while most characters are portrayed as heterosexual because the creator is not particularly open-minded or didn't want to risk her ratings on creating homosexual characters, homosexual characters are a choice, a statement by the creator that is clearly against the mainstream. And so, often, while making a heterosexual character engage in homosexual activity in fanfiction not only follows the not-unrealistic scenario of a male who grew up being told he was "normal" and assuming he was heterosexual realizing that he might perhaps be attracted to men, it can be seen as an interesting investigation of the characters involved. On the other hand, making an openly-homosexual male character behave in a heterosexual way in fanwork reeks of "normalization," of the author taking the character and "fixing" him towards the "correct" way of heterosexuality. Even if this is not the author's intent, in our current social environment, in my opinion, that is how the piece reads. A homosexual character in our society has clearly had to think about his sexuality and understand his interest in other males, something that is not necessarily a given in heterosexual male characters. Which, of course, is not to say that a homosexual character being written in a heterosexual relationship cannot be interesting, well-written, and inoffensive-- I believe that it can be, and I would definitely not bar such works. But as an explanation as to why I consider one more acceptable than the other, it has little to do with a hatred for women and much more to do with a desire to promote the acceptability and normalcy of homosexuality.
And really, in the long run, is it so unacceptable that Male A should quit his canon relationship with Female A and start one with Female B? Fanfiction is a place for things that are not canon. If Male A is in a canon relationship with Female A and in a fanfiction, he choses to run off with Female B, that is also going against what is canon. Granted, if Male A has always shown fidelity to Female A and is a bigot who hates homosexuality, it would be difficult to mobilize him for a relationship with Male B, but that is a question of characterization rather than feminism. It seems to me that this argument really boils down to, to my great aggravation, is the promotion of homosexuality as acceptable and normal versus the zeal of feminists in fanfiction. And I want to stand on both sides. I realize that female characters often take a beating in the world of fiction at large, and that there are fans who abuse homosexuality and female characters. But there are fans who write any variety of offensive works, and I guess my point in the long run is:
If it's a well-written, well-thought-out fanwork, then the choice to make a character homosexual rather than heterosexual or the choice to ignore and/or dislike an original female character stuck between two male characters with chemistry is not misogynistic. There's a difference between disliking a particular female character and hating all women. There's a difference between wanting to see a male character in a relationship with another male character rather than his canon female love interest and hating women. In the end, we can all respect one another while producing interesting and worthwhile fanworks.
I haven't really been able to make all the points that I'd like to make in this post, nor have I been able to really express myself as eloquently as I would have liked. But the fact holds that I feel like artists and authors and fans should all be able to produce respectful and praise-worthy works and other artists and authors and fans should be able to appreciate them or choose not to appreciate them without jumping to anger. I know the internet is an angry place. I know lots of people have good reason to be angry. But I also think that not all slash fans and writers and artists are misogynists and those who produce offensive work are often ignorant rather than intentionally sexist. Basically, this rant holds for mature and well-written works by people like myself, who strongly believe both in feminism and equality for those of every sexual orientation.
I guess I ought to disclaim this post with the fact that I am, in fact, an active feminist who goes to a women's college. I'm the sort of person who gets unreasonably angry at the Dove chocolate commercials that insinuate that not knitting and sewing is a fault for women and all those cleaning product commercials that specifically target women. Granted, that reeks of self-righteous college student who sits around being angry rather than doing anything, but even if I'm guilty of that, I hardly think that makes me a misogynist. At any rate, I've donated money to women's centers and gone to documentaries and talks by feminist activists in the past, which has to count for something. If you really want to question me and consider me bigoted, I guess that's your right, but I'd appreciate if you'd at least give my point a chance.
I've seen this claim made in a variety of situations, but the two most prominent are the following:
1) There's a female original character in a movie or original arc of a TV show based on a book or an anime based on a manga. In said original arc, which was not written or conceived of by the author of the book or manga, the female character is hinted to be the love interest of a male character or openly admits feelings for said male character. When the arc or movie ends, the female character disappears-- since she is not a part of the original book or manga series, she has no part in the rest of the show.
In response to this female character, fans and fanfiction authors react. They dislike this female character because she has come between her male love interest (for the ease of reference, Male 1) and another male friend of his (Male 2). The more immature among them bash her ruthlessly-- something I don't condone, of course, because it's unnecessary and rude. There is a difference between meta/commentary and bashing, naturally, but even the bashing, rude and immature as it may be, is not, so far as I can tell, misogynist. The nature of these situations, at least within my familiarity, is that frankly, Male 1 has a meaningful, long-standing relationship with Male 2, be it a friendship, rivalry, or even hatred. Male 1 and Male 2 have been in the series together for as long as it's existed, and probably longer in the book or manga since these original arcs and movies tend to be dropped down inconveniently in the middle of a story line. What sense does it make, then, for the random female to appear on the scene and, within a relatively short duration, fall hopelessly in love with Male 1? Maybe the pairing does have some merit, maybe the female is more than a canon-sue (which these characters, especially in anime, tend to be), but the fact of the matter stands that she did not exist in the original media and therefore probably does not have as well-developed a relationship with Male 1 as Male 2 does. If the female were, instead, a Male 3, I feel that the same reaction would be merited. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the value of the relationship and the pairing.
Of course, as I mentioned above, bashing the character is rude, and everyone is entitled to her own opinion. If someone likes the female character and wants to write her with Male 1, naturally, it's rude and uncalled for to bash the person's work based on that (or really, at all; is public bashing ever acceptable?) Like as not, it's completely possible to develop the relationship between Male 1 and the female character into something really interesting, and if that is someone's chosen pursuit, I wouldn't judge her for it. But in the long run, is disliking a female character created (sometimes purposefully out of homophobia) to break up a slash ship misogynistic? Often, especially in Japanese works, the female character is an object of sexism in and of herself (as are many Japanese female characters, something which, I think, drives many feminist Japanophiles to slash in the first place) and her creation as a road block between Male 1 and Male 2 is an act of homophobia. In the long run, then, am I a misogynist to see something wrong with this scenario?
Naturally, immature people who lack social awareness will say offensive things, and I'm not arguing that no fan has ever made an offensive, sexist comment along this strain. But the generalization that all fans who dislike the female because she comes between Male 1 and Male 2 is, in my honest and personal opinion, completely incorrect. And honestly, in a situation with the new female, Male 1, and Female 2, fans react with the same uproar.
2) A male character who has been either hinted to be (chain-womanizer, in a heterosexual relationship throughout the series or work, pines for various female characters at various times in canon) or is said openly to be heterosexual is written or depicted in a homosexual relationship in some form of fanwork.
And then everyone is up in arms! This is wrong and disrespectful! Clearly, this male (now Male A, to differentiate from Male 1 above) is only interested in women, and writing him in relationships with men is entirely misogynistic. Just because the author or artist wants slash and finds it "hot," she's sacrificing both the integrity of the character and the honor of women everywhere, because women are just no good to this author. The only people for men are other man, and women are to be tossed to the wayside. Clear sexism.
To which I have a variety of responses, and this first is: sometimes, yes. I agree that there are cases where this seems relatively pointless, but usually they are in fiction or fanworks made up of bad grammar, internet slang, and/or purple prose. By which I mean to say, there are immature writers who will do immature things. I know that when I was 14, I wrote and said things of which I'm not proud.
But to the rest of these works at large, I hardly feel like this is a wound to women everywhere. And my first question is is the only point of female characters to be in relationships? Why is it the end of the world that Female A has been ousted from her relationship with Male A, be it canon, hinted, or simply popular in fandom? Relationships begin and end with great regularity in the real world, and it is my hope that the main goal of those pointing fingers and slinging accusations of misogyny isn't to convince the modern woman that her purpose is to always be in a relationship. Luckily, we no longer live in the 1950s and no longer go to women's colleges to meet a nice boy at the brother school, settle down, and start popping out babies. So if someone writes a fanwork in which Male A is no longer interested in Female A and ends up in a relationship with Male B, is it the end of the world for Female A? Can't Female A go on with her life, and most likely find another meaningful relationship?
But Male A is clearly heterosexual, you say, and you have a point. Male A is said to be heterosexual in canon. But today's society, in great majority, says that everyone is heterosexual, unless they've veered from the "normal" track at some point, and who is to say that Male A hasn't been told that he's straight all his life, and has not ever thought differently? Maybe Male A is a chain womanizer-- clearly, he's into women. But does that mean that he can't be bisexual? Perhaps he's womanizing to convince himself that he's straight rather than face that he's attracted to men. Sexuality in the world of fiction, as far as I'm concerned, is fluid. Just because Male A is in a relationship with Female A in canon does not mean that he could never be interested in Male B. Because it's fiction. These people are not real, and therefore cannot tell us how they feel. If an author wishes to explore a scenario where Male A is in a relationship with Male B, is it misogyny, or is it artistic license? Assuming that Male A doesn't chose to break it off with Female A by insulting all women and saying that only men are worthy of his affections or something of the like, I hardly think that exploring one possible track of action in a character's life has an underlying sexist agenda.
But if the same thing were done with a homosexual character being paired with a female, there would be an uproar of these misogynist fans, wouldn't there? Why is it okay for a heterosexual male character to be portrayed as interested in men when it's not okay for a homosexual male character to be portrayed as interested in women? In my opinion, this is a sticking point, but it comes down to this: unfortunately, our society isn't fair. Heterosexuality is the "norm." Many characters are portrayed as heterosexual in the media because they are expected to be, and whereas the default for most characters is heterosexual, it is a distinct choice on the part of the creator of the canon series to make a character homosexual. So while most characters are portrayed as heterosexual because the creator is not particularly open-minded or didn't want to risk her ratings on creating homosexual characters, homosexual characters are a choice, a statement by the creator that is clearly against the mainstream. And so, often, while making a heterosexual character engage in homosexual activity in fanfiction not only follows the not-unrealistic scenario of a male who grew up being told he was "normal" and assuming he was heterosexual realizing that he might perhaps be attracted to men, it can be seen as an interesting investigation of the characters involved. On the other hand, making an openly-homosexual male character behave in a heterosexual way in fanwork reeks of "normalization," of the author taking the character and "fixing" him towards the "correct" way of heterosexuality. Even if this is not the author's intent, in our current social environment, in my opinion, that is how the piece reads. A homosexual character in our society has clearly had to think about his sexuality and understand his interest in other males, something that is not necessarily a given in heterosexual male characters. Which, of course, is not to say that a homosexual character being written in a heterosexual relationship cannot be interesting, well-written, and inoffensive-- I believe that it can be, and I would definitely not bar such works. But as an explanation as to why I consider one more acceptable than the other, it has little to do with a hatred for women and much more to do with a desire to promote the acceptability and normalcy of homosexuality.
And really, in the long run, is it so unacceptable that Male A should quit his canon relationship with Female A and start one with Female B? Fanfiction is a place for things that are not canon. If Male A is in a canon relationship with Female A and in a fanfiction, he choses to run off with Female B, that is also going against what is canon. Granted, if Male A has always shown fidelity to Female A and is a bigot who hates homosexuality, it would be difficult to mobilize him for a relationship with Male B, but that is a question of characterization rather than feminism. It seems to me that this argument really boils down to, to my great aggravation, is the promotion of homosexuality as acceptable and normal versus the zeal of feminists in fanfiction. And I want to stand on both sides. I realize that female characters often take a beating in the world of fiction at large, and that there are fans who abuse homosexuality and female characters. But there are fans who write any variety of offensive works, and I guess my point in the long run is:
If it's a well-written, well-thought-out fanwork, then the choice to make a character homosexual rather than heterosexual or the choice to ignore and/or dislike an original female character stuck between two male characters with chemistry is not misogynistic. There's a difference between disliking a particular female character and hating all women. There's a difference between wanting to see a male character in a relationship with another male character rather than his canon female love interest and hating women. In the end, we can all respect one another while producing interesting and worthwhile fanworks.
I haven't really been able to make all the points that I'd like to make in this post, nor have I been able to really express myself as eloquently as I would have liked. But the fact holds that I feel like artists and authors and fans should all be able to produce respectful and praise-worthy works and other artists and authors and fans should be able to appreciate them or choose not to appreciate them without jumping to anger. I know the internet is an angry place. I know lots of people have good reason to be angry. But I also think that not all slash fans and writers and artists are misogynists and those who produce offensive work are often ignorant rather than intentionally sexist. Basically, this rant holds for mature and well-written works by people like myself, who strongly believe both in feminism and equality for those of every sexual orientation.
I guess I ought to disclaim this post with the fact that I am, in fact, an active feminist who goes to a women's college. I'm the sort of person who gets unreasonably angry at the Dove chocolate commercials that insinuate that not knitting and sewing is a fault for women and all those cleaning product commercials that specifically target women. Granted, that reeks of self-righteous college student who sits around being angry rather than doing anything, but even if I'm guilty of that, I hardly think that makes me a misogynist. At any rate, I've donated money to women's centers and gone to documentaries and talks by feminist activists in the past, which has to count for something. If you really want to question me and consider me bigoted, I guess that's your right, but I'd appreciate if you'd at least give my point a chance.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 09:30 pm (UTC)I frequently want to leave reviews saying "HEGEMONY MUCH?" but I don't think I'd be able to get my point across in a review, and I really don't want to get into terse, potentially flame-y exchanges with any fanbrats.
=P
no subject
Date: 2011-06-07 09:35 pm (UTC)So yeah. I feel you. While, to be perfectly honest, a lot of the het I read is fucked up het (yes, my favourite het pairing is Aizen/Hinamori >>;) and therefore has a lot of issues on purpose... I definitely feel you.
Thanks for commenting @___@;;; I was afraid this rant was really self-indulgent.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 01:01 am (UTC)And people who criticize authors for making not canonically gay characters gay in fic are just being so homophobic/heterosexist/rejecting of the fluidity of sexuality in the first place that it's hard to take their accusations of misogyny seriously. You said sexuality in the world of fiction is fluid, and I completely agree--and I think it extends beyond the world of fiction, but maybe that's too much to ask for from a lot of the world's population XD
That said, I remember being an immature/ignorant teenager, and I really hope that that's what a lot of the people who make those accusations are. Because if not...that's depressing and angering. And my icon is directed at them XD;;;
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 01:08 am (UTC)In terms of fluidity of sexuality, more of what I meant was, I can't exactly tell you what your sexuality is. if you say you only like men, I can't jump inside your head and change your mind, whether or not you're in denial or really actually are only attracted to men. In fiction, these are characters. You're making reality for them. Even if their canon author labeled them one way, it doesn't necessarily mean someone can't explore other options in fiction.
I think, actually, the people who are making accusations are reading only slash written by 14 year olds and are jumping to be self-righteous. But still. Ew. Homophobia.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 01:15 am (UTC)...homophobia sucks. XD
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 03:03 am (UTC)Male characters frequently get a "get out of jail free card" on the issues the female characters get slammed on because the former are very rarely intended as representations of their entire gender the way the latter so often are. Meanwhile, women characters get ignored or shunted aside because their male counterparts are somehow "more interesting," and them's the breaks. And inevitably, the defense is, "Well, all the female characters suck, so it's okay to hate on them!" Well, that's some problematic source material then, ain't it?
If the female were, instead, a Male 3, I feel that the same reaction would be merited.
And I agree! Though I have a sneaking suspicion that Male 3 would probably get cut noticeably more slack than Female 3, you know? Hell, canonical female love interests get killed off or villified or ignored in fic because they stand in the way of the favored noncanon m/m pairing. (Admittedly, that also happens on occasion when they stand in the way of the favored noncanon f/m pairing, but I digress.)
Anyway, that's not to label all slash fans as misogynist. God no. I read and write slash alongside het and gen, and I think playing with gender tropes is fascinating. Bring on the men coded as women and women coded as men and the slashy het and the fluid treatment of sexuality! But I do think it's important to acknowledge when source material is problematic, especially when that gives rise to less-than-savory attitudes and biases in fandom, even if they're not consciously intended that way. That's not to say that you can't enjoy what you enjoy, just as long as you know that it's there, yeah?
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 03:23 am (UTC)So basically, of course sexism exists in fandom. Of course sexism exists in slash fiction... but it exists equally or possibly moreso in het and femmeslash fiction. In my opinion, at any rate. ^^;
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 03:52 am (UTC)2) female characters tend to be created unfairly, with less character and motives and depth, because they're created by people with ingrained sexism.
Ah, yes, this happens sometimes - but I think it's less frequently the case than is often assumed? Like I said, I think we're inclined to view female characters with a harsher eye from the start, so the ladies start out in a difficult place. In any case, it all makes good food for thought, no? Actually, if you're interested, there's a nice bit of meta here that I like, and articulates a lot of my basic thoughts on the matter better than I do. And there's a very entertaining essay here that's really flat out funny, but also makes some good points. Neither are specifically about the slash-misogyny relationship (or potential lack thereof), but Bryn Mawr feminist that you are, I thought you might enjoy them anyway. ;)
P.S. Diverging slightly from the point, I do love me some awesome ladies in fiction. If you want, I can rec you some great stuff where girls are awesome and interestingly developed! And have (gasp) motives other than love and babies, regardless of whatever romances might be going on in the background! :D
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 04:12 am (UTC)... I prefer the funny essay though. Because I love
/TOTALLY STRAYING OFF TOPIC. :D;;;
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 04:13 am (UTC)Which leads to the second point-- I agree that female characters are held up to a horrible set of standards, but for me personally, as a writer and a reader, the things that frustrate me in female characters (again, in Japanese fandom) is that they embody practically 1950s "female" values and are only driven by love and their desire to cook and clean. I'd like to put in the caveat that the only fandom that I currently read het fiction for is Bleach, where I find there to be female characters that actually have strong motivations and characters. The typical Japanese "love interest" who faints over her boy and worries about how useless she is to him makes me sick. So while I can't speak for other people or other fandoms, I feel that the lack of female characters in my writing does not stem from misogyny within my own person but rather in the original work.
Thanks for the links! I haven't looked at them yet but I will make sure to take a look.
And that sounds awesome, sure. ^^ I don't promise that I'll read all of them, but that sounds great. Like I said above, I have read works with strong female characters, but my main fandoms don't tend to overlap with those, and I feel that my choice to write slash fiction doesn't make me a misogynist. I have to admit, I'm a bit skeptical about your second point, because even in my brushes with the American mainstream media (mostly TV shows), the women are created, to some extent, within the stereotype that women's first priority is love, and this is a trope that drives me absolutely insane. I don't mean to argue that there is no sexism in fandom nor stemming from fandom, but I really do hold that slash fans aren't MORE sexist than any other group, and that often there is more misogyny in het fic, and additionally, that much of the problem stems from the original works. My knowledge is almost completely limited to the Japanese media, but I hold by that belief.
no subject
Date: 2011-06-08 04:52 am (UTC)What saddens me in the world of gender is that people get judged for their preferences, even though those are not the same as their values. My values are those of a feminist and a queer activist, or at least that's what I hope they are, and yet I worry about being judged for liking things in fic and fandom that might appear to fit into a sexist paradigm. So, more specifically--what's wrong with liking to read and write slash that might not include women? (Heck, any fic centered around a pairing might not even include any other characters at all, whether it's slash or not.) I know that fiction affects how people think about the real world, and I'm all for people writing fic with strong female characters, but I think the situation is a lot more complicated than that. In short, can a person really by misogynistic just because they don't tend to prefer the fic out there that includes girls?
Secondly, the link to the bingo card in your other comment... Embarrassingly, that does remind me of myself and some of my friends around the age of 14. But I don't know any slash writers my age now who fall into those, and it hurts a little to see my online community perceived that way. Not to say that you're doing that--just commenting on what I think about the bingo card ^^;;
Also, source material-wise as opposed to fic-wise... I'm not sure I could discount a fandom I really like just because it has no female characters. As a feminist, I like to read/watch things about women, for sure! But as a non-man-hating feminist, I think I can like fandoms that don't have female characters as well, and not feel guilty about it.
Sorry again for the long comment butting into your conversation!